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	<title>Comments on: Begging for bloggers</title>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16963</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16963</guid>
		<description>Good points &quot;just passing&quot;.  I agree strongly (and have written elsewhere on this blog) that those you&#039;d most want to hear from are the least likely to ever write a blog.  An early graduate student has a lot more time on their hands than a department chair, or someone who is doing groundbreaking cutting-edge research every day.

And it is very hard for most within the science blogosphere to get a sense of perspective on the importance and reach of their writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points &#8220;just passing&#8221;.  I agree strongly (and have written elsewhere on this blog) that those you&#8217;d most want to hear from are the least likely to ever write a blog.  An early graduate student has a lot more time on their hands than a department chair, or someone who is doing groundbreaking cutting-edge research every day.</p>
<p>And it is very hard for most within the science blogosphere to get a sense of perspective on the importance and reach of their writing.</p>
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		<title>By: just passing through</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16962</link>
		<dc:creator>just passing through</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16962</guid>
		<description>I find it pretty amazing that so many scientists even have time to blog. Or the interest. It seems that some of them (like Larry Moran, who you mention) are no longer collecting data and haven&#039;t published much in a long time (as in years). So I guess that makes sense that they&#039;d be looking for other outlets for their navel-gazing. Although the worry there is that they are putting out a lot of crap. A lot of what Larry Moran writes is just plain wrong, or at least highly inaccurate, especially when it comes to the history of scientific ideas but also with respect to current thinking on a lot of issues. If his goal is to communicate about science, he kind of messes up a lot. Other bloggers make messes too. On the flip side, does it matter? The blogosphere is such a tiny and distorted reflection of reality, and most of the world is not interested (or doesn&#039;t have access).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it pretty amazing that so many scientists even have time to blog. Or the interest. It seems that some of them (like Larry Moran, who you mention) are no longer collecting data and haven&#8217;t published much in a long time (as in years). So I guess that makes sense that they&#8217;d be looking for other outlets for their navel-gazing. Although the worry there is that they are putting out a lot of crap. A lot of what Larry Moran writes is just plain wrong, or at least highly inaccurate, especially when it comes to the history of scientific ideas but also with respect to current thinking on a lot of issues. If his goal is to communicate about science, he kind of messes up a lot. Other bloggers make messes too. On the flip side, does it matter? The blogosphere is such a tiny and distorted reflection of reality, and most of the world is not interested (or doesn&#8217;t have access).</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Gayle</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16932</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16932</guid>
		<description>Of course, all this discussion helps drive traffic to Nature&#039;s blogs, which is partly the point ;-)

While all blogs and reporters follow &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sturgeon&#039;s Law&lt;/a&gt; (of which Nielsens&#039;s observations appear to be a corollary), I think the good science blogs will be useful adjuncts for the 10% of the science journalists who can actually write well. 

The major use I have found for many science blogs is that they provide great fact-checking of what others have written. There is nothing like reading a scientist who can write discuss the latest misbegotten copy of a press release found in the science section of the local paper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, all this discussion helps drive traffic to Nature&#8217;s blogs, which is partly the point <img src='http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>While all blogs and reporters follow <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law" rel="nofollow">Sturgeon&#8217;s Law</a> (of which Nielsens&#8217;s observations appear to be a corollary), I think the good science blogs will be useful adjuncts for the 10% of the science journalists who can actually write well. </p>
<p>The major use I have found for many science blogs is that they provide great fact-checking of what others have written. There is nothing like reading a scientist who can write discuss the latest misbegotten copy of a press release found in the science section of the local paper.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16929</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16929</guid>
		<description>William, could you send along a list of the plenty of people you cite who are supporting themselves solely by blogging?  I&#039;d be very interested in looking into them and seeing the economics of what they&#039;re doing.  Recently, &lt;a href=&quot;http://realdanlyons.com/blog/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dan Lyons&lt;/a&gt; (formerly &lt;a href=&quot;http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fake Steve Jobs&lt;/a&gt;) wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsweek.com/id/183666&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an article about how hard it is to make any money blogging&lt;/a&gt;, and his blog was probably the hottest thing in the tech sphere for quite a while.  If he can&#039;t do it, I worry that some obscure postdoc blogging about signal transduction in trypanosomes doesn&#039;t stand much chance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, could you send along a list of the plenty of people you cite who are supporting themselves solely by blogging?  I&#8217;d be very interested in looking into them and seeing the economics of what they&#8217;re doing.  Recently, <a href="http://realdanlyons.com/blog/" rel="nofollow">Dan Lyons</a> (formerly <a href="http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Fake Steve Jobs</a>) wrote <a href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/183666" rel="nofollow">an article about how hard it is to make any money blogging</a>, and his blog was probably the hottest thing in the tech sphere for quite a while.  If he can&#8217;t do it, I worry that some obscure postdoc blogging about signal transduction in trypanosomes doesn&#8217;t stand much chance.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Gunn</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16928</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Gunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16928</guid>
		<description>The CJR article is a good one, and kinda makes the same point Ian does above. 

Plenty of people have gotten full time jobs blogging since the last time we had this &quot;blogging is replacing journalism&quot; nonsense going around so Chris Mooney&#039;s &quot;blogging isn&#039;t a real job for anyone&quot; comment just makes him look clueless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CJR article is a good one, and kinda makes the same point Ian does above. </p>
<p>Plenty of people have gotten full time jobs blogging since the last time we had this &#8220;blogging is replacing journalism&#8221; nonsense going around so Chris Mooney&#8217;s &#8220;blogging isn&#8217;t a real job for anyone&#8221; comment just makes him look clueless.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16927</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16927</guid>
		<description>Chris Mooney&#039;s response to Nature is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scienceprogress.org/2009/03/science-writers-and-science-bloggers/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and the Columbia Review of Journalism &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cjr.org/the_observatory/natures_artificial_divide.php?page=all&amp;print=true&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;has an article up&lt;/a&gt; as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Mooney&#8217;s response to Nature is <a href="http://www.scienceprogress.org/2009/03/science-writers-and-science-bloggers/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and the Columbia Review of Journalism <a href="http://www.cjr.org/the_observatory/natures_artificial_divide.php?page=all&amp;print=true" rel="nofollow">has an article up</a> as well.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16926</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16926</guid>
		<description>And &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/03/25/visions-of-the-crash/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Carl Zimmer give his opinion&lt;/a&gt; as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/03/25/visions-of-the-crash/" rel="nofollow">Carl Zimmer give his opinion</a> as well.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16925</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16925</guid>
		<description>Further fuel for the fire &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/drugmonkey/2009/03/the_professional_is_personal.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Do you want your journalism to include pictures of the reporter&#039;s children?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further fuel for the fire <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/drugmonkey/2009/03/the_professional_is_personal.php" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  Do you want your journalism to include pictures of the reporter&#8217;s children?</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16924</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16924</guid>
		<description>William and Ian,

The question is whether blogging is an appropriate substitute for the kind of professional science journalism that is disappearing if not totally missing from the scene these days. The problem isn’t that the writers have abdicated their responsibility at all. The problem is that the large corporations that own the newspapers and television networks are not interested in producing quality journalism. It doesn’t fit with their economic imperative. They’d rather appeal to the lowest common denominator, to the most people possible, to sensationalism, because that’s what brings in readers/viewers. One of the biggest problems is the ever-creeping dominance of opinion over fact, of columnists over news reporters. It’s less important to be accurate these days than it is to take a position (preferably one that appeals to the demographic of your readers). The other issue is the lack of original reporting, which costs money, and instead the regurgitation of press releases (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n05/lanc01_.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for more on the subject).

And to me, those same phenomena are present in most, if not all blogs. I want to replace the failing journalism system with something better, not more of the same. What’s the difference between a news article that quotes a press release and a link blog that does the same? Not much. What’s the difference between a newspaper columnist declaring their opinions and a blogger doing the same?  What&#039;s needed are new models for journalism, new ways to fund professional quality reporting without the heavy-handed influence of corporate ownership (a point where I&#039;m in agreement with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/03/newspapers-and-thinking-the-unthinkable/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Clay Shirky&lt;/a&gt;, I want to see more experimentation).

Blogging is generally a very personal affair. A blog with no personality, with no individual style, is a boring blog. That’s why they’re more akin to the editorial pages of a newspaper than they are the front page. Editorial pages are very valuable things. But they’re complementary to news reporting, not a substitute for it.

As for Nature’s motivations, they may truly believe what they’re saying, but they still have a financial horse in the race. If a scientist from Roche wants to publish a study on their latest wonder drug, they have to declare such interests. It doesn’t mean the study is inaccurate, but it alerts the reader to potential bias. All I’m asking is that Nature hold themselves to the same standards as their authors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William and Ian,</p>
<p>The question is whether blogging is an appropriate substitute for the kind of professional science journalism that is disappearing if not totally missing from the scene these days. The problem isn’t that the writers have abdicated their responsibility at all. The problem is that the large corporations that own the newspapers and television networks are not interested in producing quality journalism. It doesn’t fit with their economic imperative. They’d rather appeal to the lowest common denominator, to the most people possible, to sensationalism, because that’s what brings in readers/viewers. One of the biggest problems is the ever-creeping dominance of opinion over fact, of columnists over news reporters. It’s less important to be accurate these days than it is to take a position (preferably one that appeals to the demographic of your readers). The other issue is the lack of original reporting, which costs money, and instead the regurgitation of press releases (see <a href="http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n05/lanc01_.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> for more on the subject).</p>
<p>And to me, those same phenomena are present in most, if not all blogs. I want to replace the failing journalism system with something better, not more of the same. What’s the difference between a news article that quotes a press release and a link blog that does the same? Not much. What’s the difference between a newspaper columnist declaring their opinions and a blogger doing the same?  What&#8217;s needed are new models for journalism, new ways to fund professional quality reporting without the heavy-handed influence of corporate ownership (a point where I&#8217;m in agreement with <a href="http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/03/newspapers-and-thinking-the-unthinkable/" rel="nofollow">Clay Shirky</a>, I want to see more experimentation).</p>
<p>Blogging is generally a very personal affair. A blog with no personality, with no individual style, is a boring blog. That’s why they’re more akin to the editorial pages of a newspaper than they are the front page. Editorial pages are very valuable things. But they’re complementary to news reporting, not a substitute for it.</p>
<p>As for Nature’s motivations, they may truly believe what they’re saying, but they still have a financial horse in the race. If a scientist from Roche wants to publish a study on their latest wonder drug, they have to declare such interests. It doesn’t mean the study is inaccurate, but it alerts the reader to potential bias. All I’m asking is that Nature hold themselves to the same standards as their authors.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Mulvany</title>
		<link>http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/2009/03/20/begging-for-bloggers/comment-page-1/#comment-16923</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Mulvany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cshblogs.org/cshprotocols/?p=410#comment-16923</guid>
		<description>Hi David,

To my mind blogs are fundamentally a platform for distribution. I don&#039;t understand that there needs to be an opposition between science blogging and science journalism. It seems to me there were more scientists to have more channels into their work, an opinionated, expressive, or data driven blog for instance, then the role of the journalist may be made easier. I should stress the &#039;may&#039; there. There are a host of issues each in themselves deserving of a good decade before they will shake themselves out (activity mining, semantic sorting of information, funding for journalism, time to blog vs quality of contributions, the list goes on), but I digress. 

- Ian
(disclaimer, I work for Nature)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>To my mind blogs are fundamentally a platform for distribution. I don&#8217;t understand that there needs to be an opposition between science blogging and science journalism. It seems to me there were more scientists to have more channels into their work, an opinionated, expressive, or data driven blog for instance, then the role of the journalist may be made easier. I should stress the &#8216;may&#8217; there. There are a host of issues each in themselves deserving of a good decade before they will shake themselves out (activity mining, semantic sorting of information, funding for journalism, time to blog vs quality of contributions, the list goes on), but I digress. </p>
<p>- Ian<br />
(disclaimer, I work for Nature)</p>
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